Divinity of Christ and the Trinity vs SCJ, p1

Vasilios_2

Divinity of Christ and the Trinity vs SCJ, p1
As mentioned in my first post, my main reason for leaving SCJ is the theological and historical basis for the divinity of Christ and the Trinity, which SCJ denies. Quite a few of you showed interest in what I actually mean by this. I’m grateful for your encouragement.

This post will be a part 1 of however many on this topic, starting with the divinity of Christ and Trinity from the historical perspective. Please find the link to the pdf document below. Firstly, I will present my own research analysis, in which I cite writings of various Early Church Fathers to show that SCJ’s doctrine on the deity of Christ and the Trinity is historically incorrect. Secondly, I have included an evaluation by ChatGPT on my analysis to verify accuracy and validity, as well as my original prompt for reproducibility.

Edit: this post is not meant to convince people to believe in the Trinity, but to show current SCJ members that LMH is feeding them historically inaccurate (and therefore false) information. Besides that, it is meant to encourage them to do critical thinking. So send this to your friends/family members who are stuck in SCJ to help them be set free from LMH’s lies.

Comments Section

stickjohn
Great work! Solidifying that SCJ doctrine, especially in regards to the Holy Trinity, as heresy (as seen in the original Greek text of Galatians 5:20) is a key component in identifying the scriptural truth and using it “to reason with the Scripture”–but not in accordance to flawed SCJ logic and doctrine.

RADICALBEREAN
John 1:18 NIV 1984. Hebrew 1:8-12, Ex 3:14 John 8:58 SCJ does not teach Jesus is the person of God the Son. They are one The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit not in singleness but in unity.

kaizen_lifts
Great post bro. This should be enough to prove how a man of “God” is feeding historically inaccurate information and leading people astray. Looking forward to more of these.

shshmhh
You are awesome! I love this! Keep up the good work!

Warm-Coffee-5946
This was the point I was trying to make on the previous post. Even within Christianity, there are differing interpretations. Each one claiming it is the only truth in the same way SCJ claims their interpretation is the only truth.

I think the main benefit here is prompting SCJ members to think critically about what is being taught. Forcing them to defend their own interpretations.

Vasilios_2
I agree with you. Which is why I didn’t write this analysis to convince people to believe in the Trinity, but more so to convince members that SCJ doesn’t know Church history.

The main theme of my analysis was repeated multiple times: SCJ’s teaching on when the Church formally believed in Christ’s deity and the Trinity is historically incorrect.

Every time I quoted the writings of the Early Church Fathers, I summarized my take-away from them: that the belief was already dominant in the Church before the councils. Not that the belief was necessarily the correct one.

ChatGPT properly understood this when saying: “The analysis you’ve… focusing on the historical development…”.

PositiveBookkeeper93
What about this? Link

stickjohn
What about this? Link

Context: St. John the Evangelist is rebuking gnosticism, who deny the duality of the Son–Jesus is fully divine who also became fully flesh. These are the people–there can be many–who are antichrist [ἀντίχριστος (antichristos): those who work against and demean the messiah). Gnosticism was a sect of Christianity in the first and secondary centuries who denied the divinity of Jesus, and claimed that he was only human and not also God. Sound familiar?

kaizen_lifts
I don’t have time to respond to every verse but I will respond to Matthew 28:19. The theory that the Roman Catholic Church corrupted verses is incorrect. It looks like whatever verse you don’t agree with, you just blame the Roman Catholic Church.

Here’s the thing though: the baptismal formula in the Didache is the same as the formula in the Gospel of Matthew. The Didache is the oldest extra-biblical source for information about baptism, written around 70 AD. So your theory of blaming the Roman Catholic Church goes down.

And I will also address the Acts part. In context, Peter was preaching to circumcised Jews… they were already in covenant with the Father, so they needed covenant with the Son, aka the Messiah… for the forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit… hence to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ… In Matthew, that command was to go to all the gentile nations who had neither the Father, Son, nor Spirit… In the singular “Name,” which means the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all equal.

PositiveBookkeeper93
But the Roman Catholic Church’s 10 Commandments are not the same as the one in Exodus 20 though. They removed one line, especially Exodus 20:4-6.

kaizen_lifts
Before you change the topic, can you at least be honest and admit that Matthew 28:19 is a Trinitarian verse? I can address that Exodus verse, but I need to know if you are an honest individual.

PositiveBookkeeper93
Matthew 28:19 just said baptize them in those 3 names, doesn’t say those 3 are all God, so I don’t think so.

kaizen_lifts
Sorry bro, you have never learned Christianity. Even the website you pasted knows what the verse means, which is why it came up with “Roman Catholic Corruption,” and I proved it wrong.

Vasilios_2
Thank you for your patience. Now, it was challenging to take this seriously, yet here is my response to a few of the points mentioned on this website:

1. Trinitarianism: the belief in one God, yet confusingly and illogically maintaining that this one God is in effect three co-equal Gods of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
   This is theologically incorrect and a misrepresentation of the actual Christian doctrine. The Trinity holds that there are three co-equal Persons in one God, not three co-equal Gods. There’s a huge difference between three Persons and three Gods, since the former comes down to distinct personhood with the same single Divine Essence (which is what the Trinity holds), while the latter comes down to three separate Divine Essences (which is polytheism). They are metaphysically different.
2. It is an undeniable historical fact that, following the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the early Christians did not believe in the Trinity…. It took over 300 years to formulate the main elements of this doctrine, and it formally entered the Roman Catholic Church at the Council of Nicea in 325 AD…
   Wrong. The writings of the Early Church Fathers (i.e., Tertullian, Ignatius, Irenaeus, etc.) literally show that the belief was dominant even within the first 200 years, way before the council of Nicea. (See my analysis).
3. The Trinity is a doctrine that evolved under the influence of the Roman Catholic Church.
   Historically incorrect. The Roman Catholic Church didn’t exist at that time, as the split between East and West in the Great Schism of 1054 AD hadn’t happened yet. The church at that time is simply known as the Early Church or the Apostolic Church.
4. Secondly, the Trinity denies that Jesus Christ is His Father’s only begotten Son. Instead, it teaches that Jesus Christ is the eternally begotten Son of God, which is a man-invented, unbiblical, illogical term.
   This is both wrong and a fallacy of false dilemma: the writer assumes that the belief that Christ is the eternally begotten Son automatically rules out the belief that He is the only begotten Son, or vice versa. The Trinity holds that He is the only begotten Son, in eternity, since Christ is not created but begotten and fully God, and God is eternal and outside the concept of time (meaning the rules of time don’t apply to Him).
5. Just like His Father, Jesus Christ is Spirit, uncreated, immortal, holy and righteous, yet He is a separate God, God the Son, who is always subordinate to His Father God…
   This is literally polytheism, which is ironic since they accuse Trinitarians of being polytheist. The writer believes that Christ is a separate God from God the Father, which totals two Gods. This is unbiblical, since Isaiah 43:10-11 says, “‘You are My witnesses,’ says the Lord, ‘And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, And besides Me there is no savior.’” This verse says that there is only one God, so Christ can’t be a separate God from His Father. Furthermore, the disciples of Christ who were first-century Jews worshipped Christ. They would never do this if He was a separate God from the Father, since it would go against the Law of Moses, which forbade them from worshipping any God other than the God of Israel, YHWH. (The Trinity doesn’t have this problem, since worshipping Christ is worshipping YHWH).

It would be unwise for any SCJ member to consult this website, since this also goes against their beliefs. As I mentioned before, SCJ would never agree that Christ is a separate God from the Father, yet still Divine and uncreated. Then again, I compliment you for exploring the Christian faith outside of SCJ. Keep exploring and allow yourself critical thinking!

PositiveBookkeeper93
Don’t convince me, can you convince the one that made that website, haha.

Fit-Housing9499
Well, like SCJ, another sect that thinks it knows the whole truth, and starts to imagine in their little heads that God called them… to scare away the sparrows, it can only be. There are too many sects in the world. On the one hand, it is good because the word of God must be fulfilled, and because we can imagine how the end is much closer than it was. But on the other hand, who is really going to hell? Will it be these “founders of cults” or the whole world, because in “principle” we are all (in principle in sin). Because the Word of God, according to Revelation, (Apocalypse), was not all revealed, being hidden to be revealed in God’s time.

And since the word of God has not been completely revealed, we, mere mortals, have no idea when this will happen. We only know that it is coming soon, but this soon could take 10 or 40 years, or it could happen tomorrow! Revelations made from the head of a person who believes he is called by God, we have already seen where this is going.

We, as believers in God and Jesus Christ, must have accepted Jesus Christ into our lives (and when I say accept, it is a sincere and true acceptance, which only God knows). There must be sincere repentance for our wrong and sinful life in the past, and we must always be humble of heart, so that when that day comes, it will not take us by surprise. The best thing would be for us to also have an active life in faith and not just through words, because only God knows the true believer!

PositiveBookkeeper93
Then according to your understanding, how will God and Jesus reveal the word to us in the future then?

Fit-Housing9499
They will reveal it as it is written in the Bible, only through God and Jesus, and not through any man.

PositiveBookkeeper93
Yeah, that one I know. But like, according to the Bible, how?

Fit-Housing9499
Hey, I thought you knew, since you’re in SCJ. Isn’t SCJ supposed to know everything?

Since the Bible has not yet been fully fulfilled, we cannot know everything, and anyone who says they know everything is lying and is a false prophet. The important thing in the word of God is to fulfill the most important commandments, to be born from a repentant and sincere heart, and to let the Holy Spirit guide us to walk as He wants, not as we think it should be. The problem has always been ours, of always wanting to know everything, but that is impossible because the word of God was not completely fulfilled, and we have to learn to have patience, a lot of patience… that is the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 5:22-26:
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.”

There is simply no other solution. No one knows when God’s time is, but those who walk in a broken spirit will know how to wait for the time of our Lord Jesus Christ.

James 5:7-8:
“Therefore, brothers, be patient until the Lord’s coming. See how the farmer waits for the land to produce its precious harvest and how he waits patiently for the autumn and spring rains. Be patient and strengthen your hearts, because the Lord’s coming is near.”

Vasilios_2
There are so many theological errors listed on the website you provided, that not even SCJ would agree with them. Give me some time to prepare my counter-arguments. I will get back to you.

PositiveBookkeeper93
I just saw it. I mean, you can argue with the one who created that website. Don’t argue with me, hahaha.

Vasilios_2
Oh, I didn’t argue, haha. I just explained it “in response to you” since you introduced the website. My comment is just for whoever is interested!

Beginning_Durian_595
There’s an obvious lie in the website you just posted:
“The sad and shocking fact is that the whole world of Christianity, as we know it today, denies that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of His Father God.”

PositiveBookkeeper93
Please argue with the website owner, not me, haha.

Beginning_Durian_595
It wasn’t an argument; it was a statement. I highlighted the obvious lie in the website you posted.

You said, “What about this?” and listed a website. It shows me that you are playing games and purposefully trying to be an annoyance, just as some others do as well.

PositiveBookkeeper93
I’m just curious, what do you guys think about it? Like, should we start a new subreddit to protest the owner of the website? We should fight every cult-like teaching, right?

Beginning_Durian_595
Your “promised pastor” supposedly fights against false teachings. But when others expose his false teachings, they cry out ‘persecution.’ Your “promised pastor” is a big hypocrite. He tries to justify himself for doing things that he condemns others for when they do the same things back to him as he does to others.

PositiveBookkeeper93
Hahaha… Then I hope you are a perfect person with no fault like Jesus, and also not a hypocrite. Otherwise, it will be yikes, haha.

Beginning_Durian_595
Plus, the Bible already says that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God in (Romans 3:23), except for Jesus Christ, who was the spotless Lamb of God (1 Peter 1:19), who was tempted as we are yet without sin (Hebrews 4:15). That obviously includes Lee Man-Hee and the rest of the people on the planet who have fallen short of the glory of God.

But someone who claims to be something they are not and makes claims that are not true is a liar. When someone convinces other people to believe that they are something which they are not, they are deceiving people.

The definition of “deceive” is to convince someone to believe something false as though it were true. Lee demands people believe everything he says, or they’re not saved, even though there’s a lot of false things he has said and things which are misinterpreted, and things which he has changed, reconfigured, added, and taken away from previous things he said.

So that means people are required to believe lies and misinterpretations of the Bible, and whatever he makes up with his imagination, in order to be saved? That’s nonsense. His story is incredibly far-fetched. Imaginary invisible plagues are happening when he speaks words? Seriously? 7,000 people died spiritually from their hearts being shaken? Seriously? Lying false prophets of the Tabernacle Temple were representatives of Christianity? Seriously? People blasphemed God because of a 1-talent weighted Korean guy? Seriously, why would people blaspheme God because of some random Korean guy? A lot of his story is incredibly far-fetched and highly exaggerated, especially in those Revelation movies.

Beginning_Durian_595
I also don’t claim to be all of the things Lee Man-Hee claims to be either.

I also don’t call my own words “words of the Holy Spirit” like Lee Man-Hee does and then changes them. When God said He wouldn’t alter the words that have gone out of His lips, which proves that Lee Man-Hee’s words aren’t the words of the Holy Spirit since he’s changed them so many times (Psalm 89:34):
“My covenant I will not break, Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.”

It’s even more “yikes” for Lee Man-Hee.

I guess you forgot the message I sent you previously:
“You really think God is going to condemn people for not believing in and following false messiahs and false prophets, and the things they say? You might be a few tools short of a tool shed if you think that.

7 Korean people at the Tabernacle Temple, who claimed to be things that they weren’t (which is a lie), gave time-limited prophecy that didn’t come true (which means they were false prophets). This all happened before Oh Pyeong-Ho even came into the picture. These people were corrupt on their own, not because of Oh Pyeong-Ho. Those Tabernacle Temple people even called the covenant they made with their own blood “The Ark of the Covenant,” which is another lie. Lee Man-Hee says these lying false prophets were “representatives of Christianity,” which is a lie as well, since false prophets aren’t representatives of Christianity; they’re false prophets, right in alignment with Jesus’ warnings.

Lee Man-Hee’s narrow definition of what a false pastor is: a pastor who teaches lies about the Bible.

Ironically enough, Lee Man-Hee’s own narrow definition of what a false pastor is makes him a false pastor as well since he has taught lies about the Bible. There’s a lot of lies about the Bible written in Shincheonji books, which shows that Lee Man-Hee is a false pastor, according to his own narrow definition of what a false pastor is. Pretty ironic.

Lee Man-Hee’s narrow definition of the 3 types of revelations: prophecy revelation (God), fulfillment revelation (God), and false revelation (Satan).

These “3 types of revelations” show that those Tabernacle Temple founders were giving “Satan revelations” about things since they were shown to be false about a lot of things they claimed. Ironically enough, Lee Man-Hee condemns himself and the Tabernacle Temple with his own narrow definitions.

Considering all of the judgments Lee Man-Hee makes against others, when those judgments he makes against others are measured back against him, it shows him to be false as well. Pretty ironic.

Thinking of it like that kid’s saying, “I’m rubber, you’re glue, whatever you throw bounces from me and sticks to you.” But I’m thinking of it in the terms of (Matthew 7:1-5, Luke 6:37-38, Romans 2:1) sense, of judgments made against others being measured back against the person making the judgments. If they’re guilty of the same things which they are condemning others for, then they will be condemned with their own judgments when measured back to them since they are guilty of the same things they’re condemning others for.

Lee Man-Hee has made “a lot” of judgments against others to be measured back to him. Hopefully, he’s spotless like Jesus was for when his judgments are measured back against him.